ip-climber

Holiday Time.........

2006-09-15T09:08:00.000+01:00

This blog is closed, cos we're off climbing, back in the middle of October.

Ciao

11th September 2001

2006-09-08T15:50:00.000+01:00

Most forums have cleared up their posts from after '9/11', some don't keep that many years available. The rec.climbing' posts on Google are still around, the anger and outrage preserved. The first one starts with

Woooooow...Check out the news...Serious Shit coming down....!!!!

World Trade Center...???? Check out post 11 by Scott M Grimes

look at yourselves

The Bullies New Hate Thread

A Reflection Scott M Grimes reflects a day later

FW:A Christian Response to Terrorism

Curb World Overpopulation. . . . . .Nuke'em

-P

What's a climber?

2006-09-08T09:05:00.000+01:00

It used to be fairly straightforward what a climber was, after an apprenticeship you just became one, a simple binary state. Things aren't so clear cut now, take a look at this thread on UKC.

On the surface a simple consumer complaint but what struck us was this statement by actiongirl76

"I decided to terminate the climb"

We've never heard a climber say that before, we thought termination was the prerogative of the climb, not the climber. The hook line on this post was "I would welcome comments and thoughts from other climbers on this". Judging by the hit rate on the thread alot of climber read this and just shook their heads and browsed away. Actiongirl76 has not displayed any of the qualities of a climber - in her position we think the correct response of a 'real' climber would be to go away climb more, train harder, come back and learn from the experience.

So what makes a climber? a SPA? I imagine the only person interested in a SPA would be a lawyer. Louise Shepherd is a climber, she did an interview for www.chockstone.org, we wonder what she would make of actiongirl76?

Between these two extremes something happens when you become more 'climber like', you can't teach it, it's not on the curriculum of any outdoor education course, it's more of an attitude really, a subconscious state of mind born of a physical activity.

While we on chockstone.org we found this 'Quote thread' that has been running for 2 years, the opening post makes a pretty good test of 'climberdom', if you agree with this

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f&ck what a ride"."

you're in the club!

Have a good weekend, it's a great forecast.

-P

Norrie off the Naughty Step!

2006-09-06T08:57:00.000+01:00

After two weeks in the UKC Sin Bin, Norrie returns to the fray. Who'd have thought that! That old grizzled mountain man writing an apology to Alaim. Anyway we've opened an office sweep stake to see how long he lasts this time. Already the Great Pretender seems to be on his case, and it won't be long before the 'feral posters' bring him down again. It's a bit sad really, so we were thinking how do you deal with stuff like that in a forum where you can't go all the way - as it were!

Well in an attempt to help keep the forums clean we at IP-C have decided to host a service for all climbing forum users.

The Parking Lot

The Parking Lot™ is IP-Climber's new conflict resolution and new climber initiation and training facility. Ever had a problem with another poster on a forum, you know they are alway there on your thread, sniping at you. Or maybe you've just read a post so unbelievably dumb that there is no other option but to flame the miserable little worm. Well now there's a way to do it without the risk of getting banned.

Ask them to 'Step Outside' either on the thread or via e-mail. Contact us and we will schedule a slot for you and your opponent in 'The Parking Lot'.

See The Parking Lot™ for full details and to book a slot e-mail Eve

Contests will commence in October.

-P

Google Trends

2006-09-01T13:23:00.000+01:00

Quiz Time....

Top climbing city in the UK

Sheffield
Bristol
Glasgow
Manchester
Lancaster

Answer

Top mountaineering city in the UK

Oxford
Aberdeen
St Albans
Glasgow
Inverness

Answer

Top bouldering city in the UK

Milton Keynes
London
Bristol
Sheffield
Leeds

Answer

Top walking city in the UK

Manchester
Cambridge
Oxford
Winnersh
Brighton

Answer

And finally the gay climbing capital of the UK

Brighton
London
Sheffield
Bristol
Edinburgh

Answer
(Possibly not work safe)

Go Climbing - Followup

2006-08-31T09:21:00.000+01:00

Snow + Rock was founded in 1982, with the Kensington shop (Is this anything to do with Alpine Sports?) by Mike Browne. In 2004 it was sold to Andrew Brownsword, founder of Forever Friends greetings cards. Maybe that explains its rather fluffy view of the world. We vaguely remember a thread on it at UKC

It would be easy to be forced into an anti business stance after reading 'Go Climbing' so we took a look around some of the retailers websites. So from the opposite end of the spectrum lets take a look at how Needle Sport offer advice to the young climber. Take a look at this page.

Ultimately climbing is a dangerous sport and claims many casualties each year. One of the guiding principals of British climbing and mountaineering is that it is the individual climber is responsible for his or her own safety. If you can not accept this then this site and probably climbing in general is unlikely to suit you. May we refer you to this very interesting site instead!

There you have it, the Primary Axiom of climbing, climbing is crazy, no sane logical person would reasonably want to take part in it, and if the thought of accepting and dealing with risk does not appeal to you try, something else. We think you can do business and retain your integrity, at the end of the day it's probably the consumers' responsibility to think before they open their wallet.

Before we leave this Snow + Rock thing behind we found a page where you could ask Andy Kirkpatrick or Ian Parnell a question directly, well we couldn't resist - could you...

From:ryan michael [mailto:ryanmichael@XXXXXX.com]
Sent: 29 August 2006 13:29
To:ianparnell@XXXXX.co.uk
Subject:Expert advice for Ian Parnell Climbing Advice

hi
been climin for 6 months at local wall and wont a
helmut for my birthday in sept. my uncle used to
clime and sez i dont need   helmut, is he right????

and shud i use helmut when bolderin???

also wich 1   shud i get?? black dimod or petzl??

ta
ry

Well to Ian's credit he got back pretty quick to the annoying little oik....

To:ianparnell@XXXXX.co.uk
To:ryan michael [mailto:ryanmichael@XXXXXX.com]
Date: Aug 29, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Expert advice for Ian Parnell Climbing Advice Line

Hi Ryan, the choice of course is down to you but I personally
would strongly recommend using a helmet for roped climbing.
The general feeling is that a helmet is considered essential
for mountain routes or ice climbing where there is a strong
chance of rock or ice fall, highly recommended for general
trad climbing to protect the head from a fall or loose holds
or dropped gear and recommended for sports or wall climbing
where there is less chance of being hit by falling rock but
still the possibility to hurt your head in a fall.  Almost
no-one uses one for normal bouldering but if you feel more
comfortable wearing one then that is up to you.  Both Black
Diamond and Petzl make a superb range of helmets and I would
recommend going into one of our shops for a trying on session
as personal fit is crucial – if your helmet feels bulky or
uncomfortable then you are less likely to wear it. Ones to
look out for include the Petzl Elios which is very good value
at £36.95 or the Petzl Meteor III which at £59.95 is one of
the lightest helmets around alternatively the Black Diamond
Half Dome is another good value alternative at £39.95  Good
luck with your climbing cheers Ian

He did give a reasonable overview of popularist thinking on "helmuts" and didn't just push the most expensive one, however we wondered what Ian thought of the 'Go Climbing' web article? Does he do what he does because of the "improved aerobic fitness", the "inclusiveness" or the fact that it's "a great family activity"?

-P

Climbing gets a corporate makeover

2006-08-28T22:12:00.000+01:00

Expert advice from Snow and Rock, I found this recently, it's one of their "Go Guides", this one tells everyone about climbing, it starts

Why Climbing?

The feeling of pulling over the top of a sheer rock cliff is one you will never forget; the drop beneath you, the sun setting on the horizon and the adventure shared with your friends. People come to climbing for many reasons. For some it is a love of the outdoors and a chance to explore places where few have ever been, for others it's the physical and mental challenge of making that move that you previously thought was impossible. The health benefits of climbing include improved aerobic fitness from the approach walks, a balanced improvement in muscle tone and vastly improved balance and flexibility. Perhaps the main area of benefit is the increased confidence as you learn to overcome the challenges of the vertical world. Whatever the reason you decide to start climbing, the one thing all climbers share is that ear to ear grin of exhilaration at the end of a day's climbing.

The next paragraph begins....

Climbing is one of the most inclusive sports around.

and continues

A small amount of general aerobic fitness is useful just to get you to the base of the crag, but the myth that you have to have arms like Popeye to get to the top is just that - a myth! In fact, most climbs reward good balance, footwork and technique over sheer brawn, meaning that women, with their typically lower centre of balance and better flexibility, can progress very quickly. One of the best things about climbing is that you're not competing against anyone else; you set your own targets and try your best. It's up to you whether you want a gentle day out traversing the rocks in between sun bathing at a Pembroke beach or a full workout at the overhanging limestone cove of the Yorkshire Dales. Climbing is a great family activity and many climbing walls offer children's clubs.

The next paragraph implies Baggy Point is on the South coast of Devon and the BMC is the 'governing body' of climbing. Later it advises how to start climbing and tells you where you can climb in the UK.
*EMPHASIS IS MINE

AAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH

Post modernistic deconstructional corporate bullshit or just plain wrong. There ya go a hundred years of climbing evolution, the aesthetics of Buhl, the anguish of Bonatti, the grit of Whillans reduced to "improved aerobic fitness". Climbing is being rebranded and packaged as a product in a corporative range, nicely sitting between skiing, mountain biking and those 'way radical' extreme sports. Written by a twenty two year old corporate whore whose only interest in climbing is the corporate ladder!

Boy am I in a bad mood now!

-P

alamejames.blog :: Friday 25th August 2006

2006-08-28T21:57:00.000+01:00

Cripes what a week at UKC! Monday I'd just finished my Posting Policy Document(PPD). Then started to work on my flow diagram to help the moderators. It's really clever they ask themselves 33 questions to which they answer Yes or No, this then guides them through a decision matrix, if it's a dispute between two posters, they then run a credit check and zap the one with the lowest salary. It's great.

Charles is weally getting on my nerves at the moment, he's stomping round the office muttering something about tide information, I thought I'd get Andrew to test out my new flow diagram, any way he got a bit confused(bless him) and zapped everyone, yep 150,000 e-mails got sent in under 0.5 of a second, crashed the mailserver, took out the database server, and UKC took an outage. Yikes, the phones went ballistic, all those advertisers......

Just then Michael decided to go and play with those bouldering boys. I was up all night fixing the servers. Next day as I was trying to get caught up it crashed again. Andrew says he never touched anything but I'm very suspicious.....

Next thing I know Michael comes back with his face in a hankerchief, that's the last time I'm letting him play out with those ruffians. Friday we eventually got all the children settled back into place and it was back to business as usual.

Phew! Hope next week is better!

Bouldering Special

2006-08-24T11:22:00.000+01:00

Thanks to Bubba for the link on that Cocktalk thread, and thanks to Houdini for this nice piece of photoshoping. So something for you boulderers that have made your way over here, sorry if it's a bit lame.

We( at IP-C) aint boulderers per se, but I remember as a lad(back in the 70's), just after I had started climbing I found a book in a bookshop, all winter long I'd go back in each weekend to look round the gear shops and check that book out. I swear I almost read the whole thing without buying it. One photo stopped me dead in my tracks

The book was Master of Rock: The Biography of John Gill by Pat Ament. It expanded my view of what climbing was. The next spring I started bouldering on railway and canal bridges near my home.

John Gill occasionallly posts on rockclimbing.com here's his profile. Tab along the box to check out his photo's. In one of his posts he states

"I knew I was a boulderer when Yvon Chouinard told me I was one, in the mid 1950s"

Another must for anyone interested in the history of bouldering is his website www.johngill.net.

I guess it was the mid eighties I became aware of Jim Holloway. I'm just so impressed that some of Holloway's problems haven't been repeated since the 1970's, what the hell are you guys playing at? John Gill's website has an article on him. Also he occasionally comes up on the Forums.

Bouldering History - Jim Holloway Stories Please
Jim Holloway
Holloway redux with a link to a podcast

Another popular one is the Strength to Weight ratio, here Supertopo.com kick the subject around with some input from the usual suspects. Oh yeah and check this out for a bouldering pad

Have a great Bank Holiday weekend's climbing/bouldering or whatever.

-P

Enough

2006-08-23T08:57:00.000+01:00

Dear Mick

UKClimbing.com is not the problem, it is merely a symptom.

Think on that glasshopper.

"get this on your blog i-p boys or I'll cry........" - Mick Ryan , 21st Aug 2006

2006-08-22T11:12:00.000+01:00

Ambassador Ryan visits UKBouldering.com to restate UKC's foreign policy

UKC is brilliant, 150,000 visitors per month, essential reading
He then provides links to all the weally exciting forums(Can we ask a question Mick? What would you do if someone came along and posted links to another site all over one of UKC threads? Oh sorry, Andy has already answered that one!)
Logbooks and photo's are great. Yep tend to agree on that one
All of you are fixated on the forums and don't see the other stuff......(UKC use the forums to sell advertising space - see UK is the accepted voice of climbing in the UK. That is where alot of the confusion arises, UKC needs to attract potential purchasers not climbers - it should really be called www.UKoutdoor-shoppers.com)

Anyway I think the UKB boys put up some good arguments, but what became clear is that the two sites are at opposite ends of the commercial spectrum. Mick seems to have spent too long in the US, prostrating himself before the alter of the mighty dollar...... Then again he might have just been born a pr$#k, you decide the thread is here.

A while back Mick started a debate about starting a Forum specifically for Women, I didn't read it but I'm curious about why they thought they needed more segregation, I'll get Eve to read that later and report back. Also he adds in the above thread

"Plus we are working on lots of things at the moment: blogs, podcasts, videos, better articles....loads of stuff."

You definately need better articles, look at the hit count for some of the things you've produced, compare that to your monthly "Everyone should wear a helmet" thread. Blogs????? Why??? podcasts and videos. You know the problem with you guys is that you really need to decide what you are....... but hey, that's just our opinion.

Anyway thanks for the plug on UKB, pity you couldn't have added our URL.

-P

Norrie on the Naughty Step?

2006-08-21T11:10:00.000+01:00

News is filtering through that Alan 'SuperNanny' James has 'sinbinned' Norrie Muir - they don't say banned anymore on UKC, apparently you get to sit on the 'naughty step' until you are sorry enough to write 'SuperNanny' a full apology by e-mail. That's the average age of the forum just gone down by about 10 years!

-Eve

The Black Canyon of Gunnison

2006-08-18T10:20:00.000+01:00

As The Stonemaster's Thread led to a magazine article in Rock & Ice, so another of it's articles inspired a thread on SuperTopo.com. I think the article was by Jeff Achey, but Grug kicks off the thread with some reminisces about climbing with Derek Hersey in The Black Canyon of Gunnison.

Every article I've ever read about the Black Canyon seems to allude to the malevolent atmosphere of the place, - yet, I'd love to do one of the routes in there, to take the trip down one of those gulleys from the rim, and do the climb out.

There are a few Trip Reports on the net

Anything but a Cruise(15 hours in the Black Canyon) by Bill Wright
Great White Wall a Trip Report on rec.climbing by John Byrnes
Into the Black... & The Scenic Cruise by Guillaume Dargaud
Too Long Nights by Chiloe
Hallucinogen Wall by Amanda Tarr
The Scenic Cruise REDUX by Charles Vernon
The Book of KOR by Ed Webster
A Thread where a newbie Brit climber asks rec.climbing where to climb on a vacation in the States, and someone suggests 'The Black Canyon'..........
Mad Dog announces the death of Earl Wiggin on rec.climbing

-P

Banned Followup

2006-08-16T13:36:00.000+01:00

I guess UKC/Rockfax is gearing up for the release of their 'flagship' guide shortly. We can expect to see some glowing reviews posted on the site with people tripping over themselves to say how fantastic it is. In the mean time.........

As a followup on the sad demise of Sloper from UKC, Mick Ryan came over to UKBouldering to share with the proletariat the facts of the situation

Without guidelines there would be chaos
It's soooo hard work moderating
There have been lots of 'hot incidents'
He doesn't know why Sloper got banned

He then adds a link to the UKC posting guidelines and said

"If you want abuse each other start your own blog (just don't expect free publicity and traffic from ukclimbing.com) or do it at the back of some pub."

Thanks Mick, we will!

Is it just me or do you think that pretty much sets the tone of how UKC treat other sites and users on the net. Sounds like contempt to me, the way they come onto other forums and post stuff that would get snipped on the hallowed ground of UKC. Just to finish off, he insults 'Irish Si' on the way out.

Nice of you to drop by Mick, have a nice day!

Stop Press:
Sloper's bannishment even gets a thread on UKC, it's here. If you know of any of the incidents Mick mentions regarding solicitors call our e-mail address is here.

-Eve

Yer Banned

2006-08-11T13:38:00.000+01:00

Well the latest victim of a UKC ASBO appears to be sloper, judging by this thread on UK Bouldering, rather humourously entitled 'Banned from Cocktalk'.

I guess it will soon become a de rigeur badge of honour, come to think of it there are probably more people banned from UKC than there are people posting there now!

Sloper's been round on that site for ages, wonder who he upset?

What's it was like to be banned from there, I mean what do they do, do you have to wait outside Alan James's study, and does Mick R then escort you in. Anyone got any funny reminisces about their time in the UKC departure lounge please e-mail me and we might collect them together or invite you onto the blog to share.

-Eve

The Stonemasters Thread

2006-08-11T10:50:00.000+01:00

Anyone interested in the recent history of climbing should find this thread riveting. It's from the SuperTopo sight which again and again produces some excellent threads. The Stonemaster were a hugely influential group of west coast American climbers in the seventies. John Long(aka Largo) is about to write and article for Rock & Ice magazine and asks for comments to jog his memory. He posted in January this year, the thread ran till June and spawned many others. The thread was segmented into 10 parts.

Largo's original post

Stonemaster (Part X) with URL's of all parts and spawned thread

There's alot of reading there and some great photos, but it's worth the effort as there are some good stories and vignettes of that time. One theme that comes through very strongly is the character of Tobin Sorenson.

-P

UKC brands IP-C "A Personal Abuse Site"

2006-08-06T14:49:00.000+01:00

Oh Dear, there seems to have been a bit of a firefight over at UKC at the end of last week. It appears that some wag posted a link to this site andgot their threads zapped. Also judging by the comments to the last post,some of you folks out there don't like us.

The only thread I could find on UKC that related to this was started by Andy Hyslop, that well known guardian of internet standards. The thread was entitled Forum Rules, and Andy begins by saying

"With reference to some of today’s deleted threads can I remind those concerned that we don’t allow links to sites that contain personal abuse. If you have any issues about any aspect of UKC youare most welcome to debate them in a reasonable manner on these forums accordingto the posting guidelines (link below)."

OK

We are not a "personal abuse" site. This site does not even claim to be a climbing site, what we are trying to do is look at how climbing is portrayed on the internet.
We would like to clarify one point, Nick Smith of Alpkit is not the same as Nick Smith of UKC, we didn't state that they were, we asked the question, they are not the same person and would like to offer apologies to both Nick Smiths for any inconvenience or embarassment this may have concerned.
JCT and JoHNY. We have no connection with these two internet personalities. We exchanged about half a dozen e-mails with JCT about 4 years ago, and again last month we exchanged a few e-mails. After leaving a comment, we e-mailed JoHNY to see if he would like to write something for the blog, he declined and we respect him for that.
We admit that people have left abusive comments on this blog, we do not condone these comments nor do they represent the views of IP-C. We openly criticize other sites who moderate their content so we are very loathe to start doing that here, however we will have to take a view on that in the future. Please if you wish to insult JCT please go to her blog and do it there, were she is more than capable of answering you in a robust and forthright manner.

Later on in the thread Andy seems to go a bit wibbley, but Mick Ryan steps in at the end and nicely re-states the UKC party line, 23,000 users 180,000 IP adresses blah, blah, blah.

Now as for the comments on left on this blog

JoHNY, that was very naughty, let's save ourselves alot of time here. YOU'RE BANNED!
J - I think we are of a similar mind
Fex, yer barking
alun- We've never been kicked off UKC, haven't really posted there that much. James hasn't upset me, never met any of the UKC mob - oh spoke to AH a couple of times.

"Besides - I challenge you to show me a website that is more representative site of UK climbers"

Mr S - you seem very angry.

One things seem to have surfaced here, was there a "golden era" of UKC, or is there an element of nostalgia working here? We'll maybe look at that in another post.

-E

UKC is the accepted voice of climbing within the UK.

2006-07-14T11:07:00.000+01:00

Eve's away this week and to be quite frank the net's been very dull so no weekly roundup this week.

Just take a look at this page http://ads.ukclimbing.com/mediakit.html.

Look at the first quote in bold

“UKC is the accepted voice of climbing within the UK. The forums are influencing the way that the BMC and the magazines view climbers. It is the foremost method of communication, distribution of news and comment between climbers in the UK” - An anonymous quote from the recent UKC Readership Survey.

Sorry guys I don't accept you as the 'voice of climbing'. It seems ironic that Alan James is so dismissive of anonymous comments that this should appear so prominently in his 'media kit'.

Look at the next quote down from one of our advertisers

"UKC should be the foundation for all your online promotion to the Climbing Community. 7 minutes after going live with UKC Banner ads, we got an order...It works! These days we don't just want to change copy before the print deadline, we want to replace and update adverts that aren't working whilst they're still running ......not after." - Nick Smith - Alpkit

Is that the same Nick Smith that is a moderator on the forum?

UKC claims over 22,000 users, once you sign up for UKC, and you can't delete your account, you become one of Alan's constituency. But does Alan represent as he claims 22,000 climbers in the UK? I suspect it's nothing like this number.

Look at the Demographics page this is the people he claims to represent, well paid employed climbers in southern and central England who buy gear and browse the net.

This bears out my opinion of alot of the posters, the experience level is significantly lower than it was a few years ago, the characters have been driven away, there is little serious in depth discussion of routes or climbing issues. How has this happened, well looking at this media kit I suspect Alan needs a well behaved forum to attract advertisers. It's got to be pretty embarassing to him when potential advertisers browse through the site and see JoHNY and Norrie having a spat, bit like showing a Headmaster showing a Governor around a Special Need School.

I also think by a process of accretion he has a group of loyal 'poodles' who consider themselves the characters of the forum, these can be relied on for posts that support the UKC view and shout down anyone who dares speak of heresay.

The resultant homogenised/pasteurised innane drivel that appears on the site is bordering on embarassing. The idea that the RockFax Politburo are touting this sort of talk around the smoke filled rooms of climbing commercialism and claiming to represent climbers really does suck in a big way.

Climbing deserves better than this.

-P

The Contributors (Part I - Luca Signorelli)

2006-07-11T10:03:00.000+01:00

Some of us lurk, some SHOUT, troll, argue, earnestly discuss, joke, stir things up, lie or just spout drivel. Other people make great climbing contributions to the internet. I first became aware of Luca Signorelli last year on UKC, a full list of Luca's posts on UKC can be found here.
Luca used to post on uk.rec.climbing and rec.climbing, early on in this thread commenting


Before I go on, an overdue precisation - I'm absolutely the world's
worst mountaineer. My love for mountains is only matched by my
terrifying incompetence while trying to climb them. And my level of
fitness - at least right now - is even worse. I've a climbing resume
that goes hand in hand with the one of Sir Robin in "Monty Python &
The Holy Grail" ("He NEARLY tried to climb the Freney Pillar, and
ALMOST tried to summit Mt. WhatsItsName and PERSONALLY wet himself
while on the Midi route to Mt. Blanc..."). Just in case you're
mistaking me for someone who's even remotely claiming some authority
in the field.

Luca is Italian and lives in Torino, Italy and provides a valuable stream of up to date information on the Western Alps, from current weather to hut information, recent conditions to historical information on the routes of the area. Luca does not judge the people asking for advice or information but just provides clear concise and accurate information in excellent English. For instance in a thread entitled The Hardest in the Alps.


Reality is, that this is the 1M$ question of climbing history,
and has no straight answer, because the problem is - hardest
compared to what? What does really "hard" mean? Technically
difficult? Physically exhausting? Serious? Dangerous?
Psychologically tough? Add to this that in alpine environment
local conditions are everything, and expecially on tough mixed
terrain, what one year is death incarnate can be "feasible" the
next (or viceversa). Rock climbing routes are strongly dependant
on "in situ" gear, etc.

I wrote an article for an "european climbing magazine" a couple of
months ago about the history of "Divine Providence", and the first
sentence was a question "Is DP the hardest route on the highest
mountain of the Alps?". Truth is that at the end of the article I
couldn't give a inequivocal answer - even limiting the comparison
only to routes leading to MB proper.

(I assume we're speaking only of multipitch, multiday routes on
"adventure" terrain, without - much - fixed pro etc, rarely climbed
and with an high level of commitment - )

I'll give you only one example how "hard" is relative - it's generally
assumed that the Gervasutti route at the East Face of Grandes Jorasses
(set in summer 1942) was the hardest rock route of the massif until
the American Direct at the Drus was climbed in 1962. But when the
Gervasutti got his third repetition in 1974, by Joe Tasker and Dick
Renshaw, things had turned upside down - they climbed the Dru Direct
as a training for the Gervasutti! Nowadays, nobody would probably even
compare the two routes (the level of committment of the Gervasutti is
much, much higher).

Luca doesn't just post on forums, checkout summitpost.org, where Luca maintains a few of the pages on mountains in the Mont Blanc range and the Graians. My favourite is the Grand Jorasse, this page is authoritative and definitive.

So you see you there are other uses for the internet............

Luca's contributions to summitpost.org can be found here

IP-C Newsroom Weekly Roundup(2)

2006-07-06T12:33:00.000+01:00

Good Morning from the IP-C Newsroom, I'm Eve Ardour and here's the weekly roundup from around the web for week ending 7th July.

The UKC newsletter for last week caught our eye this with this 'the furore caused by Al Evan's last article'. The article A SLIPPERY SLOPE (Confessions of a climbing alcoholic) and the subsequent thread hardly caused a 'furore', generally people took the article at face value and extended their support to Al, Mick Ryan was strutting around basking in the reflective glory of his 'scoop', a few people, who had maybe considered the situation more deeply started to register their opinions about the suitability of the article. That is where the matter would have ended, had it not been for some friends of Al's posting a thread on the site indicating that Al still had a drinking problem and advising anyone who was going out to Spain to climb with him to be careful. Now this was the thread that caused the 'furore'('Like road-crash tv on the web' as one punter termed it), for a short time this was riveting reading, sometime that evening after a 'crisis meeting' of the UKC Politburo, the thread got pulled, the article remained and a remarkable silence descended on the UKCR, no mention was made of Mr Evans(or any post mentioning him got zapped!). Like any good drunk Al popped his head up above the parapet on June 21st and is still posting now, he's even written another article about Monkeys which is quite clearly the biggest load of rubbish any of us have read! We at IP-C wish Al well with his problems and we hope his involvement with the UKC folks does not exacerbate the situation.

Since the demise of the PlanetFear Forums UKC seem to be the only show in town or is it? Over to our Chief Internet Reporter, Monty Brawl.

Thanks Eve, well yes UKCR forces are everywhere, however what is becoming clear is that there is so little serious and open discussion on UKC, what appears to be happening is that there are a series of small active websites springing up regionally catering for the more serious activists. You have ukbouldering.com, this has been described as a 'nihilist ghetto' by Mick Ryan, indeed UKCR forces have been active here recently putting down a revolt over the quality of the Lakes Bouldering Rockfax. Then there's Simon Pantin's news site and similarly South Lancs bouldering site. Many small sites are starting up all over the place, but they are all regional, some are technically slick, and it's where the serious activists are hanging out and swapping information and debating the current issues. I think we can look at these sites for the next major innovations, for instance scottishclimbs.com have launced a Wiki this year, a very interesting trend from this technically advanced site. The rather 'clunky' UKC site still claims the most users but there must be serious concerns when a troll with a helmet gets over 6,500 hits and their own articles barely get 20% of that. Oh , hold on Eve, incoming, that troll bedspring has just posted again on his helmet thread I gotta go I think there's going to be a serious fire fight here, seeya next week.

Yes thanks Monty, well we'll be sending Monty to check out these small sites over the coming weeks and we'll see if we can find out what happened to the PlanetFear forums.

Another quiet week on the net, now get off that keyboard and get out climbing, See you next week, Ciao.

You don't see that everyday.....

2006-07-06T09:14:00.000+01:00

I remember at the end of a relaxed week at Pembroke in the eighties, I was there with a friend who climbed a bit but wasn't that serious about it, I was mopping up some classics I'd missed and was near the top of a route at Mother Scarys Kitchen. Suddenly I found myself wrong handed on a hold, my feet were all off to one side and I was starting to barndoor off, I suddenly snapped out of my relaxed complacent state of mind. I eyed my last runner at foot level, and decided to take a short ten or fifteen footer and get back on and sort myself out.

I shouted out to my belayer, who'd moved out from the base of the climb so she could keep an eye on me, she locked the belay and I pushed away from the rock as I let go. I looked down between my legs expecting to stop at the fifteen foot mark but I continued to fall, why wasn't I stopping? I'd started to tense up as I spied a ledge accelerating towards me, I was slowing but not nearly enough. I eventually slowed on the stretch, lifted my feet and bounced on the rope just short of the ledge.

What had happened? My belayer had locked the belay plate but she was about thirty foot away from the base of the climb, as there was a significant weight difference she'd been violently pulled towards the cliff. I thought of this experience when I looked at the photographs posted by Zeki Melek on this thread at rockclimbing.com. These were posted in November 2005,

P1 Pre flight checks complete, belayer fed rope back through device, no slack in system.
P2 Lift off, all systems normal, deceleration nearly complete
P3 Alert top piece failure, recalculate acceleration for system backup
P4 OK this is getting hairy, running on backup
P5 Backup system failure, prepare for crash landing
P6-8 Crash and roll

He was OK! The fall is further discussed on SuperTopo on this thread where there are other photographs of falls.

-P

BURT BRONSON - THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS CLIMBER

2006-07-04T09:16:00.000+01:00

The rec.climbing newsgroup is really the mother-load of the climber's internet, it started in April 1991 after a group of climbers that had congregated on rec.backcountry split off to form their own newsgroup. From 1995 to 2003 they were regularly getting between 2500 to nearly 5000 threads a month. Like most human communication there is much of it but little worth a second read, with the advent of commercial forums by 2002 things were getting a bit dull and boring, but cometh the hour cometh the man. From summer 2002 till spring 2004 BURT BRONSON - THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS CLIMBER posted some hilarious stuff, I think most people got quite fond of BURT, all his posts were made in block capitals, he criticised the modern climbing trends and harked back to the old days, whilst claiming to be the last of the REAL climbers.

My favourite thread is YOSEMITE - SERIOUS CLIMBING, from which I quote his opening post


HI NG.  BURT BRONSON HERE.  SINCE THIS NG IS GOING DOWNHILL, I THOUGHT I
WOULD GRACE EVERYONE WITH SOME EXCELLENT WRITING AND TO ALSO HELP EVERYONE
TRY TO IMAGINE WHAT IT MUST BE LIKE TO BE A SERIOUS VALLEY CLIMBER LIKE ME.
MOST PEOPLE JUST HAVE NO IDEA, SO I THOUGHT I WOULD RECORD MY EXPERIENCES
FOR THE 99.99 NON-SERIOUS CLIMBERS OUT THERE IN THE CYBER WORLD.  ENJOY!

AS YOU ALL KNOW, I AM THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS CLIMBER.  THEREFORE,
MY GOALS IN THE VALLEY WERE FAR MORE SERIOUS THAN WHAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE.  MY
OBJECTIONS FOR THIS TRIP WERE:

1) ASTROMAN IN SUB 3 HOURS WITH ONLY 3 NUTS, AND 2 CAMS - LINKING WITH CREST
JEWEL AND A DOWN CLIMB OF ROYAL ARCHES TO THE DEVIL POOLS - TOTAL CLIMB TIME
TO NAKED TIME AT THE POOLS: 6 HOURS
2) SOLO OF STECK-SALATHE BESTING HENERY BARBER'S TIME OF 2:45
3) SOLO OF THE GOOD BOOK WITH NO HELMET WHILE DODGING LOOSE AND FALLING ROCK
4) FREEBLAST BEFORE CURRY BREAKFAST BUFFET OPENS WHILE GETTING COMPLETELY
HAMMERED THE NIGHT BEFORE
5) PANTY RAID OF THE HUBERS FIXED LEDGE ON ZODIAC WHILE ASCENDING THE ROUTE
IN SUB 8 HOURS SOLO
6) THE ROSTRUM TO THE ALIEN FINISH WHILE TAMING A PERIGRINE FALCON NESTING
THERE TO BRING HOME AS A PET
7) SOLO OF GENERATOR CRACK IN RUNNING SHOES WHILE ON REST DAY/MORNING JOG TO
TUOLOMNE AND BACK
8) SMOKE AND DRINK BEER FROM BROWN BAG ON THE PIZZA DECK WHILE SCAVAGING
PIZZA AND DODGING THE YCS EMPLOYEES
9) SANDBAG THE NUMOURUS FIRST TIME WALL CLIMBERS WITH BAD WEATHER BETA AT
THE START OF THE NOSE TO TEST THEIR SERIOUSNESS
10) SMOKE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF WEED WITH CHONGO AND THEN TELL HIM HE'S GOT
RELATIVITY ALL WRONG

AS YOU WOULD HAVE GUESSED, ALL GOALS WERE COMPLETED AND ACTUALLY SURPASSED.
MY TIME ON ASTROMAN WAS 2:20:43 AND WAS NAKED WITH COCK IN HAND AT 4:53:32.
MY TIME ON STECK-SALATHE WAS 1:23:21.  I SUCESSFULLY DODGED FALLING ROCK ON
THE GOOD BOOK AND EVEN MANAGED ANOTHER SLIDE!  FREEBLAST WAS A JOKE BUT
BREAKFAST WAS GREAT.  I HAVE MUCH OF THE HUBERS GEAR AND A NEW SOLO RECORD
FOR ZODIAC.  MY PET FALCONS NAME IS BECKEY.  I'VE DOWNGRADED THE GENERATOR
TO 5.3+. I OWNED THE PIZZA DECK. NO NOSE GUMBIES PASSED MY TEST, WHICH IS
GOOD, AS I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE RESCUEING PEOPLE ON THIS TRIP.  CHONGO HAS
ACCEPTED HE KNOWS NOTHING OF RELATIVITY AND CONFESSED THAT HIS BOOK IS A
SCAM - AS A SIDE NOTE, HE DID HAVE REALLY GOOD WEED.

BURT BRONSON
THE LAST BASTION OF THE SERIOUS CLIMBER

Read this thread if you all the way to Salley Durt's final post, it's classic.

Other classic BURT BRONSON threads

Dordogne, France?
On Dick and Pussy - an interesting NPRRRRRR word study - Read Dingus Milktoast's examination of profanity
HEY FRENCHIE
HALUCINATIONS OF A SERIOUS CLIMBER
BURT IS A BIG FAKE!
Why do we not climb in Lycra Anymore?

The 45 posts of BURT BRONSON

IP-C Newsroom Weekly Roundup

2006-06-28T11:38:00.000+01:00

Good Morning from the IP-C Newsroom, I'm Eve Ardour and here's the weekly roundup from around the web for week ending 30th June.

The Bouldering Dictionary is a great post from saintlade on ukbouldering.com. Check out Bristol Heal, Brown Point and Yellow Point, Chuffing, Donkey Line, Northumberland Power Spotting and the Yorkshire Power Dab. While you're there check out Dylans Avatar/Picture Thingy. It's the second post on the Dictionary thread.

A minor skirmish broke out on ukbouldering.com this week when Alan James(Chairman of the UKC Politburo) made a surprise visit to ask about some grades for his forthcoming RockFax Manifesto, cheeky boy. Alan was not happy and at one point stated 'Unfortunately I am bumping up against people like you who are more interested in axe-grinding and point scoring which is a shame and reflects badly on the forum as a whole'. (Wow that's bumping, grinding and scoring in the same sentance - Eve) Of course UKC isn't like that at all is it?

Also he has openly critisized people posting strong opinions anonymously, that's weally, weally naughty and shwudnt be awllowed. The visit was caught on camera by our on the spot reporter....

While we're at UKC a possible troll has appeared, considering this is one of the highest security sites in the world this is impressive. We've asked our Net-Abuse Expert Dr HyperText Browser-Troll to take a look, so 'Trolly' whaddya reckon?

Yes Eve this is very exciting, the troll goes under the name bedspring, he's a type 3, subcat II, quite benign really but he's a slow burner, as of this morning he's got nearly 5,000 hits, quite remarkable! This is soooo exciting, let's take a look at his opening post, he dropped this into 'Rocktalk'last Friday








Hi,
do you think it a reasonable thing to refuse to climb Multi pitch
with a partner who will not wear a helmet. On single pitch its non
of my buisness but on Multi if they take a crack it can have direct
consequences for my safety.
What do you think.
Cheers Beds

Doesn't look much does it, but immediately it offends the grammarians and puntuarians. It also puts 2 fingers up to the anti-authoritarians, it is quite clearly a newbie question challenging the way it has always been, classic stuff! Andy Hobson nearly spoilt it on the second post, then we got an 'assist' from Dazzle(is this a two-man combo?) and all the old guys piled in, I couldn't believe it it was like feeding time in the shark tank, those guys should know better. Then we got an outbreak of innuendo and smutt, all the helmet jokes, fantastic!

Then the old guys came back to try and reason with him, bedspring was posting and just playing with them, where did he learn that stuff! Bedspring's last post before logging off that night stated that he'd read all the advice but was going to insist all his climbing partners must wear a helmet, now that's a good day's trolling in my book. You can read the whole thread here. Keep your eye on this guy, this is sooo exciting, back to you Eve.

Thanks, 'Trolly' that's about it for this week, a quiet week on the internet, now get off that keyboard and get out climbing, See you next week, Ciao.

Love JOHNY, XX (Part I - the uk.rec.climbing years)

2006-06-27T11:44:00.000+01:00

There seems to be two opposing forces at work in climbng forums, on the one side there is the 'orderly, lets all play nicely together and aren't we great people' force. On the other there is the 'fuck! this is boring, lets trash this place and really stir things up'. These two primeval forces are evident wherever you look, my favourite example took place on uk.rec.climbing last century. The uk.rec.climbing USENET newsgroups was a spin off from rec.climbing the original US dominated group. It started in 1994 and by 1999 had developed an atmosphere and culture of it's own. I'm not saying it was dull, this was pretty heady stuff in the mid to late 90's, e-mail, newsreaders, .signature and kill files, but it all this seems so quaint now with modern browser based forums. This world was inhabited by people who generally posted under their own name, alot of them are still on the net, a typical post would have contributions from

mathewaheason
Tony Buckley
Matt Schofield
Jon Read
Mark Kemball
Alastair Downie
Phaedrus (Bit of a tear away that one!)
Mike Blamires
Vicki Portman
Steve Laybourn
and a host of others

On Tuesday 1st June 1999 a new guy rolled into town, his first post was quite innocuous

Does anybody go to Bowles on Saturdays.  It would be good to meet up and use
eachother's ropes, and maybe go for a pint afterwords.

John.

There was another in July in a similar vein, nothing for July or August, then in September 104 posts, and their tone and character changed dramatically. Just before a trip he posts this


Has anybody discovered any climbs in Gran Canaria.  The plan is to climb
till about 5pm.  Then have a swim, go to a bar have some beers and then get
lay'd.  PERFECT
JOHNY
XX

JOHNY is now a carefully constructed personna, a laddish, loud leery mysoginist, part Viz character part barroom philosopher. It was like he had plotted opinions and values that had developed in the group and purposefully come at them from the diammetrically opposite point of view.

The group fought back, the lurkers watched, suddenly it was fun, and this guy was giving a masterclass. A series of threads all with titles in BLOCK CAPITALS marked his teritory, his posts were typically short and always ended with 'JOHNY' or love JOHNY, XX' for instance on ANT he starts off with

Are you the prat who in July at Bowles said I was abusing the rock?  If your
not, my apologies.  If you are, FUCK OFF AND DIE.
JOHNY

On STEVE LAMEBRAIN JOHNY tells us something of his philosophy

Attitude takes years of development.  Only with diligent study and training
can one hope to reach my level of attitude.  Moreover, attitude is what
makes me an exceptional climber.  I laugh when I see people like Laybourn
climb.  However, I make it a rule to always tell myself.  JOHNY, God gave
you more attitude than other people, so use it wisely.  So here is some of
my wisdom.  Drink beer, smoke tabs and fuck anything that moves.
Love JOHNY
XX

JOHNY robustly defends himself in this thread and low and behold the first signs of a change in attitude for him, Steve Gray wrote:-

Now I'm certain you're a troll, and a good one at that.

Matt Schofield was getting pretty angry, see 2nd post on the ANT thread, he started complaining to Freeserve about JOHNY's abusive posts, things were getting worse between these two in particular, see some of the other threads of early September, for instanceHow Friendly is Youarsey.

My favourite post from JOHNY is his MATHEW thread, I quote this in full

Alone, a little boy sits in front of a little computer.  Mathew picks up the
phone.  Bring:bring: bring: bring At freeserve HQ the phone is answered.
Hello Freeserve helpdesk, Roger speaking how can i help?
Herro is dat fweeserve:
Yes this is Roger speaking, how can i help you?
Herro:
Yes hello, what seems to be the problem?
Wewll I want to compwain about a man on de intwenet:
And what man's this, little boy?
Itch a howible man cwalled JOHNY who says wude fings:
O.K little boy, let me put you on hold while a make a note of his name.
At this point Roger puts Mathew on the voice com and waves violently to his
collegues.  Listen to this we got a right one here.  Upon hearing this
Rogers collegues instantly stop what the're doing and listen in.
Now little boy, Roger says, what's this nasty man JOHNY been saying to upset
you.
Wewll hees sayd I woz a cocksucker, and, and he sayd i smewll:
On hearing this pandamonium breaks out in the Freeserve office.  Rapturous
roars of laughter are heard even as far as the MD's office.  Karen the Unix
guru, because she is nine months pregnant has to leave the office.  Just in
case she laughs so much she goes into labour.  Steve the NT wizzkid laughs
so violently he throws coffee over all the computers.  Roger, who took the
call is left sobbing on the floor.  After having laughed so much.  Meanwhile
Nafpew still on the phone is wondering what is going on.
Herro, herro is anybwody there, herro, herro?
Later on that day an urgent meeting is scheduled for all Freeserve
employees.  The MD stands and clears his throat.
Fellow Freeserve fuckers, I understand some cocksucker kid phoned and
complained about me.  Roger you took the call, i want you to head our New
York task force.  Try and find out more about this limpdick Mathpew.  Spare
no expense.  Lino, i want you to infiltrate his chain of command.  Try and
learn as much as you can.  Matt, you my friend, shall issue the contract on
this cocksucker's head.  Use Max from our Hong Kong office.  O.K people,
what are you waiting for, move!!!!
Love JOHNY
MD Freeserve UK
XX

When I reread that recently I had tears running down my face, it reminded me of Dennis Leary doing standup comedy. But what would Matt do, fight or flounce, it was an important moment, to Matt's credit he stepped up to the keyboard and acknowledged JOHNY's mastery of the medium.

I must admit, although taking the piss outta me, it was pretty funny!!!!


Matt

I think they eventually got his Freeserve account shut down, but by then there was a fair groundswell of support for him, certainly other lurkers I spoke to found him hilarious, he continued on uk.rec.climbing for a while using different accounts, but to my mind nothing compares to September 1999.

Ladies and Gentlemen I give you my first entrant into the "IP-C Hall of Fame" -- JOHNY

The JOHNY Threads

-P

Daryl's Daughter

2006-06-26T10:52:00.000+01:00

A bunch of climbers sit around a campfire in the Sierra Nevada, they warm themselves against the cold fall night telling stories and talking. Into the light of the campfire a teenage girl steps, dressed in denim shorts and a halterneck top, the talking dies down, all eyes turn to the girl.

What had brought her here? What did she want?

In a tremulous voice she looks at them with a frankness and honesty that belies her years, she speaks "This might sound weird to you, but I'm Daryl Hatten's daughter, did any of you know my dad?"

This is fantasy right, some slushy father/daughter Hollywood tear jerker. Wrong, this happened in May this year, not as described above but virtually on the internet at SuperTopo.com, the thread is here.

It was four hours till someone posted a reply to Janelle's initial question. Piton Ron replied with an annecdote about Daryl Hatten which I think added alot of validity to the original post, this I think was pivotal. Then it started, friends of friends or people that knew someone that might be able to help. Daryl's daughter replied and more of her story came out. The climbers network kicked in and over the next six weeks, friends, close and otherwise, contributed to the thread, an internet memorial carved with respect, love and care by Daryl's peers as a gift for his daughter. The final post(as of June 26th) is a black and white photograph of Daryl sitting on a rock smoking, if I were the folks at SuperTopo I'd lock that thread down there, it's as close to perfect as I can imagine.

-P